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RayProudfoot Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: "CH analogue hardware and WindowsXP" 04-01-02, 23:42z  Hi all, To my horror I've just discovered that because of the way Microsoft has changed WindowsXP (Home and Pro) it isn't possible for CH to amend their SpeedKeys software for this OS. SpeedKeys allows the user to program the CH Pro Throttle and VPPro. Additionally, they will not be producing a XP compliant driver for the analogue Virtual Pilot Pro until the summer. It seems Microsoft has closed off the gameport for "security reasons"! So here's my dilemma. Do I stay with my admittedly ancient hardware (5-7 years old) and WindowsMe until one of them gives out or do I bite the bullet and buy the more accurate USB versions, hopefully sell my fully-functioning hardware thus allowing me to move to XP? Would the USB versions work better than the analogue versions? I presume I would at last get working toe brakes if I moved to USB? The USB Pro Thottle has three modes allowing far more versatility than the analogue version. Comments are welcome! Regards, Ray Proudfoot, Cheshire, England Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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Subject      Author      Message Date     ID      RE: CH analogue hardware and Window... vgbaron 04-02-02 1    RE: CH analogue hardware and Window... RayProudfoot 04-02-02 3         RE: CH analogue hardware and Window... PeteDowson 04-02-02 5              RE: CH analogue hardware and Window... RayProudfoot 04-02-02 8              RE: CH analogue hardware and Window... PaulCroft 04-03-02 9                   RE: CH analogue hardware and Window... PeteDowson 04-03-02 12                        RE: CH analogue hardware and Window... PaulCroft 04-03-02 14   RE: CH analogue hardware and Window... Sticky 04-02-02 2    RE: CH analogue hardware and Window... RayProudfoot 04-02-02 4         RE: CH analogue hardware and Window... Sticky 04-02-02 6              RE: CH analogue hardware and Window... RayProudfoot 04-02-02 7                   RE: CH analogue hardware and Window... RickLee 04-03-02 10                        RE: CH analogue hardware and Window... RayProudfoot 04-03-02 11                             RE: CH analogue hardware and Window... PeteDowson 04-03-02 13                                  RE: CH analogue hardware and Window... RayProudfoot 04-04-02 15                                       RE: CH analogue hardware and Window... PeteDowson 04-04-02 16                                            RE: CH analogue hardware and Window... RayProudfoot 04-04-02 17

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vgbaron Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 1. "RE: CH analogue hardware and WindowsXP" 04-02-02, 01:58z  Ray - It's just one man's opinion but I would do the upgrade. You can only beat an old horse just so long. There might be some who differ, but not many, I'd bet, but Windows Me should never have escaped. Getting rid of that will be a major step up. I cannot speak to the hardware compatibility issue but as an old time user of NT4 I can safely say the trouble finding drivers, etc, is well worth it. I have run NT4 business wise for years without problem but it took me a while to set up. XP Pro seems a similar animal. Fortunately, I'm dual booting so I stay with 98SE and switch to XP to get familiar with it. As I said, just one man's opinion. Also, on another, more somber note, may I express my condolences to all from the UK on the passing of the Queen Mother. As we say in the states, she was a grand old dame! Best, Vic Baron **** VPC OffLine Reader Version 3.0.4.0 **** ++++ Registered to: Vic Baron ++++ **** OLR.PL Build 1.73 **** Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RayProudfoot Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 3. "RE: CH analogue hardware and WindowsXP" 04-02-02, 07:49z  Hi Vic, Many thanks for your comments and words of wisdom. I had considered partitioning to allow dual-booting but although I have the expertise to do it I'm reluctant to do so. It seems like a lot of messing around just for the sake of extending the life of hardware that has paid for itself long ago. There appears to be a parallel here to the days of DOS/Win3.1 and Windows95. XP has received a lot of praise and is probably the way forward. You have helped me make up my mind. I think the time has come to bite that bullet. I have no doubt USB versions will have greater accuracy and installation will be a breeze. Thanks for those kind words on the Queen Mother. Despite her great age the announcement came as quite a shock on Saturday and she was a lady who was held in great regard by this country and by many others. I doubt we shall see her like again - more's the pity. Regards, Ray Proudfoot, Cheshire, England Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PeteDowson Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 5. "RE: CH analogue hardware and Window..." 04-02-02, 08:39z  Hi Ray, > Many thanks for your comments and words of wisdom. I had considered > partitioning to allow dual-booting but although I have the expertise to > do it I'm reluctant to do so. It seems like a lot of messing around just > for the sake of extending the life of hardware that has paid for itself > long ago. You do *not* need to partition at all to dual boot Windows98 or Me with Windows 2000 or XP! When you install the latter it asks if you want to replace you existing Windows (i.e. upgrade it) or install a fresh system. in the latter case you can have it in the same partition as ordinary windows. it goes into a different folder, that's all. I have this on one of my PCs now, with Win98SE sitting in C:\WINDOWS and Win2000Pro sitting in C:\WINNT (the default it uses in this case). The dual booting order and selection is controlled by a BOOT.INI file which is user-editable and sits in the C:\ root folder. I'm having to stick with Win98SE mostly as I have no way of debugging my developments on NT-based systems -- the cost of upgrading my Soft-Ice, Bugtrapper and BoundsChecker packages is enormouse --- over £2000 and a mandatory annual subscription contract these days -- so I am stuck with win98SE forever, or at least until I cease development. <G> Regards, Pete **** OLR.PL Build 1.73 **** Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RayProudfoot Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 8. "RE: CH analogue hardware and Window..." 04-02-02, 15:38z  Hi Pete, You do *not* need to partition at all to dual boot Windows98 or Me with Windows 2000 or XP! When you install the latter it asks if you want to replace you existing Windows (i.e. upgrade it) or install a fresh system. Hmmm, that's useful to know and thanks for the info. However,I will be moving to WindowsXP when the time comes rather than dual-boot simply because it offers me a more stable and sophisticated OS. I haven't found anyone (including yourself! ) who has any good words for WinMe. I have also decided to replace my analogue hardware as USB simply offers so much more. I am looking forward very much to toe brakes and I believe I owe you thanks for that. I understand your reasons why you choose to dual-boot - it makes no economic sense whatsoever to shell out all that money. However, I expect you to continue to develop software for many years yet (hopefully as many as the dear departed Queen Mum!) so you'd better buy a piggy bank and start saving now I rang Bob at RC Sims today and placed an order for the USB yoke, throttle and pedals. Should be here tomorrow Mary said and I'm looking forward to seeing how they perform. From the reviews on the CH site everyone who reviewed them was well impressed! Regards, Ray Proudfoot, Cheshire, England Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PaulCroft Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 9. "RE: CH analogue hardware and Window..." 04-03-02, 01:24z  Hi Pete > You do *not* need to partition at all to dual boot Windows98 or Me with > Windows 2000 or XP! When you install the latter it asks if you want to > replace you existing Windows (i.e. upgrade it) or install a fresh > system. in the latter case you can have it in the same partition as > ordinary windows. it goes into a different folder, that's all. No dispute there but one of the changes I've adopted since using winXP is to format my drives as NTFS rather than fat32 because, from what I've been able to gather, this is a more efficient file system. If Ray (or you) want to dual boot am I right in thinking that you can't take advantage of this since win98 won't read the NTFS file system? Paul Croft 10 miles SE of Heathrow (EGLL) **** VPC OffLine Reader Version 3.0.3.5 **** BETA 2 **** **** OLR.PL Build 1.73 **** Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PeteDowson Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 12. "RE: CH analogue hardware and Window..." 04-03-02, 11:04z  Hi Paul, > No dispute there but one of the changes I've adopted since using winXP > is to format my drives as NTFS rather than fat32 because, from what I've > been able to gather, this is a more efficient file system. If Ray (or > you) want to dual boot am I right in thinking that you can't take > advantage of this since win98 won't read the NTFS file system? I'm not so sure about that. But I need to stick to Fat32 in any case because of a lot of my tools. In any case, I believe the comparisons between NTFS and FAT32 are much more complex than that. One is more efficient for some things and the other more efficient for others. The MAIN reason folks switched -- and this is really more applicable to businesses (NT's prime target) -- is the extra security measures embodied into NTFS -- access permissions, etc etc. I don't think there's really much in it for ordinary users. I think NTFS is more efficient for lots of small files, but FAT32 is better for large files. Certainly if you keep today's huge hard disks as one single partition then NTFS is much more efficient in terms of space, as its block size (or whatever it's called) stays pretty small whereas FA32's get bigger and bigger. But I *always* partition my disks. I won't have any partition too big -- else it take aeons to do the Scandisk checks on them, and multiple aeons to defragment them! Besides which I like to keep windows in its own partition, all my flying stuff in another, development stuff in another, and so on ... makes it much easier to find things and to back up, as well as check and defrag. Regards, Pete **** VPC OffLine Reader Version 3.0.3.5 **** BETA 2 **** **** OLR.PL Build 1.73 **** Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PaulCroft Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 14. "RE: CH analogue hardware and Window..." 04-03-02, 19:26z  Hi Pete > I'm not so sure about that. But I need to stick to Fat32 in any case > because of a lot of my tools. I guessed as much. > In any case, I believe the comparisons between NTFS and FAT32 are much > more complex than that. I'll bet they are. I must admit that it's taken me a lot longer to come to terms with XP than it did with win98SE and, as ever, I find that in some areas MS has taken 2 steps forward and 1 step back. > I *always* partition my disks. I won't have any partition too big -- else it take > aeons to do the Scandisk checks on them, and multiple aeons to defragment > them! > > Besides which I like to keep windows in its own partition, all my flying > stuff in another, development stuff in another, and so on ... makes it > much easier to find things and to back up, as well as check and defrag. So do I - I probably learnt that trick from you One thing I have just found out that I hadn't thought of. Until recently I used to keep my virtual memory on a separate partition because I'd heard it was a 'good thing'. I've now learnt that, if I do, it's slower. The logic is that while it's probably quicker if it's kept on a separate physical disk, if it's on the same disk but a different logical drive, there is a time factor involved in accessing the virtual memory while the hard drive's reading arm traverses the disk to the partition concerned and that, in all probability, it's more efficient if the virtual memory is kept in the same partition as the OS. That's where mine is on this new PC and, for now, that's where it's staying. Paul Croft 10 miles SE of Heathrow (EGLL) **** VPC OffLine Reader Version 3.0.3.5 **** BETA 2 **** **** OLR.PL Build 1.73 **** Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Sticky Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 2. "RE: CH analogue hardware and WindowsXP" 04-02-02, 03:02z  Hi Ray, Yeah, XP/2K have made the keyboard download just about impossible. The move to USB is probably inevitable, but you can delay it a bit if you want to. The problem is only with the download itself. Once the file is loaded the keyboard playback generally works fine under XP. You can install any W9x version and dual-boot to do the download, then boot back to XP to actually run things. A W9x install only uses half a gig or so of space, not a big deal really. The only problem would be if you're using NTFS rather than FAT32, Then you're kind of stuck unless you go back to the DOS loaders and run them from a boot floppy or partition the drive to have a FAT32 section to hold W9x and the loaders. WRT the game port driver, if you want to drop me a note (sticky at stickworks.com), I may be able to help you out there. - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RayProudfoot Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 4. "RE: CH analogue hardware and WindowsXP" 04-02-02, 07:54z  Hi Bob, Thanks for your opinion - much appreciated. Please see my comments to Vic on dual-booting - I doubt I'll go down that route. Having thought about it overnight (do I really consider such things when I'm asleep? ) I would only be delaying the inevitable and when you consider how much service this hardware has given me and which continues to work perfectly, I'm inclined to sell now and allow someone else who has no intention of moving to XP the chance of acquiring this gear at a bargain price. Thanks for the offer of help with the driver but it now seems I won't need it. Regards, Ray Proudfoot, Cheshire, England Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Sticky Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 6. "RE: CH analogue hardware and WindowsXP" 04-02-02, 10:17z  Hi Ray, Well, it was really more an option than an opinion - I'm all for going USB. USB really does look to be pretty much inevitable, though. If you're going with CH and decide to use the Control Manager, be sure to pick up the latest version from the CH website. Also, you shouldn't install any other device-related software (USB pedals, etc.) that's on the distribution CD. The Control Manager install will handle all of it. - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RayProudfoot Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 7. "RE: CH analogue hardware and WindowsXP" 04-02-02, 11:06z  Hi Bob, Thanks for the info on the Control Manager software - duly noted. As you will see I have now advertised my hardware on these pages and am in negotiations with RC Sims here in England for the USB versions. I'm certain I have made the right decisions. Reading through the reviews on CH's site everyone praises this hardware. Regards, Ray Proudfoot, Cheshire, England Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RickLee Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 10. "RE: CH analogue hardware and WindowsXP" 04-03-02, 03:13z  <scratching head> I thought I replied to this thread yesterday, but my reply isn't here... but I recall my laptop battery running down and I probably didn't send the message before that. I have a complete set of CH USB Pro stuff now. Yoke, Fighterstick, throttle, pedals. It was quite an investment in gear but boy it sure it good quality stuff. Installing the gear under XP couldn't be any easier. Basically, you just plug it in and it works in "Direct" mode with FS2002. The variable toe brakes are especially cool. I love making really sharp turns when taxiing now. I have never really got the "Manager" software working with FS2002 but Sticky tells me it's possible. When I try it, it seems that all of the axes get all mixed up. One of the reasons I haven't worked harder on getting that software working is that it works pretty well right out of the box. I haven't had a burning desire to remap any keys yet. Rick Lee www.rickleephoto.com Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RayProudfoot Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 11. "RE: CH analogue hardware and WindowsXP" 04-03-02, 09:15z  Hi Rick, Having variable braking sounds great. Is that something Pete Dowson has achieved via FSUIPC? I thought digital braking meant there were two modes - none or full. To have variable braking sounds great. Strange how the CH "Manager" software doesn't seem to work as intended. CH are usually very good with their supportive software. For now I'll be running under WinMe so I'll see if anything is different. However, from what you say I may not need to rely on it too much. The gear is due to arrive today so excitement is building Regards, Ray Proudfoot, Cheshire, England Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PeteDowson Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 13. "RE: CH analogue hardware and Window..." 04-03-02, 11:04z  Hi Ray, > Having variable braking sounds great. Is that something Pete Dowson has > achieved via FSUIPC? I thought digital braking meant there were two > modes - none or full. To have variable braking sounds great. The term "digital" (versus "analogue") has to be interpreted in the context in which it is used. If you describe a game attachment like the yoke or pedals or brakes as "digital", as you probably would for a USB connection, all it means is that the numbers flowing across the wires into the PC are in digital format. It doesn't mean they can only be "0" or "1" (of course) as USB can of course handle multiple digits. This is different to your current "analogue" yoke and pedals where the signal to the Game Port merely represents an analogue electrical value like potential difference, current or resistance, and the *analogue* circuitry in the PC's game port converts that (or rather, in fact, the time it takes that to change) into a digital (numeric) form for use inside. It's rather like the difference between CD sound recording compared to vinyl, or DAT compared to ordinary cassette tape. BUT, applied to the actual values obtained, the way things appear to work, from the PC program's point of view, as you say, a "digital" brake could indeed be one which is only either on or off, whilst an analogue one would have a range on on-ness or -off-ness -- but that is represented by a number too. All yokes and rudders and throttle are "analogue" in the sense that they can represent a changing value, apparently continuous, not merely just "on" or "off". Whether they communicate that digitally or not to the PC is another matter. All CH Pro pedals, whether Game Port or USB, do actually have analogue brakes, not just on-off buttons, and provided they can be connected to the PC so that the two brake axes are actually seen as axes, they can both be used for proportional braking in FS. The only difference between the USB and Game Port ones in this sense is that there is no difficulty connecting the USB ones in this way, whilst there are not enough axes on a Game Port. There are several folks I know of who have multiple game ports (eg by adding another sound card, or using the old Thrustmaster Game card which sported two ports) and are successfully using proportional braking with the Game Port pedals you have. In fact we did go through all this when you were using the PFC yoke, as your rudders could then be connected through that leaving your game port free for the brakes. Finally, FSUIPC supplied the proportional braking facility for FS2000, where otherwise it wasn't available. FS2002 supports it directly, using the AXIS_ brake controls. Best Regards, Pete **** VPC OffLine Reader Version 3.0.3.5 **** BETA 2 **** **** OLR.PL Build 1.73 **** Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RayProudfoot Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 15. "RE: CH analogue hardware and Window..." 04-04-02, 10:47z  Hi Pete, Sorry for the delay in replying but I had a very persistent headache yesterday which refused to budge. Thankfully, I feel much better today. Thank you for that very full explanation. Since I posted my message I have received the USB gear and have briefly tried it. I can now relate your description to what I am actually seeing. Yes, when the brakes are applied the effect is gradual much the same as it was when I pressed the button on my analogue equipment. Much more precise too. Overall, even with a brief test I am very impressed with the precise control of USB equipment. And as you say, FS2002 supports it directly. I did try briefly to get toe brakes to work when I had the PFC gear. I tried various configurations but the system refused to recognise any of them. Still, it's not relevant now. Regards, Ray Proudfoot, Cheshire, England Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PeteDowson Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 16. "RE: CH analogue hardware and Window..." 04-04-02, 17:23z  Hi Ray, > Sorry for the delay in replying but I had a very persistent headache > yesterday which refused to budge. Thankfully, I feel much better today. That's good then ... sounds like you are working too hard? Surely not hay fever, yet? June and I are off on holiday early Saturday, for 8 days in Sicily and Calabria -- another one of our steam railway jaunts. June's hip problems and arthritis are really bad at the moment, but we hope the Mediterranean heat will help. If you notice anyone complaining that I'm not replying, can you just point out to them that I'm on holiday? thanks. I doubt it will happen -- things are relatively quiet for me, email-wise, recently. Only about 20-30 a day instead of the usual 50-100! <G> Best regards, Pete **** VPC OffLine Reader Version 3.0.3.5 **** BETA 2 **** **** OLR.PL Build 1.73 **** Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RayProudfoot Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 17. "RE: CH analogue hardware and Window..." 04-04-02, 18:15z  Hi Pete, No, the reason for the headache was dehydration - I don't drink enough at times. I'm one of a breed that only drinks when I'm thirsty - something must be going wrong inside! Sorry to hear about June's arthritis - I'm sure the Med weather will do some good. Don't have her stoking too many boilers will you I'll keep an eye out for your messages. 20-30 a day is quiet? Arrgghh!! Regards, Ray Proudfoot, Cheshire, England Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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