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Ben Chiu Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: "Multiple monitors" 01-22-02, 19:29z  OK, after seeing what some of the rigs that you guys run at home, I'm thinking about taking the plunge. My current main machine has a dual head card in it. It does the "wide view" thing where you have a desktop that will stretch across two monitors. I recall reading somewhere that if you try and run two 3D windows frame rates will drop off to a slide show. I guess I have two questions: 1. How do you stop one window/monitor from running a 3D view? 2. What could you reasonably run in the second non-3D window/monitor? The instrument panel? Thanks! Ben Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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Subject      Author      Message Date     ID      RE: Multiple monitors James 01-22-02 1   RE: Multiple monitors Mike_Greenwood 01-22-02 2    RE: Multiple monitors WScofield 01-23-02 3         RE: Multiple monitors Mike_Greenwood 01-23-02 4              RE: Multiple monitors Ben Chiu 01-23-02 5                   RE: Multiple monitors Mike_Greenwood 01-23-02 10                        RE: Multiple monitors RandyHaskins 01-24-02 11                             RE: Multiple monitors Mike_Greenwood 01-24-02 12              RE: Multiple monitors WScofield 01-23-02 6                   RE: Multiple monitors James 01-23-02 7                        RE: Multiple monitors WScofield 01-23-02 8                             RE: Multiple monitors James 01-23-02 9              RE: Multiple monitors RickLee 01-24-02 13                   RE: Multiple monitors James 01-24-02 14                   RE: Multiple monitors Tarmack 01-27-02 15                        RE: Multiple monitors RickLee 01-27-02 16                             RE: Multiple monitors Tarmack 01-27-02 17                                  RE: Multiple monitors James 01-28-02 18                                       RE: Multiple monitors Tarmack 01-28-02 19                                            RE: Multiple monitors James 01-30-02 20                                                 RE: Multiple monitors Tarmack 01-31-02 21                                                      RE: Multiple monitors James 01-31-02 22              RE: Multiple monitors jonahbird 08-05-02 23

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James Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 1. "RE: Multiple monitors" 01-22-02, 22:28z  Hi Ben, >> 1. How do you stop one window/monitor from running a 3D view? << There's probably some one out there that will shoot this down in flames but, what the heck, I've got broad shoulders The simple answer to that one is you can't, not under Win 98SE or earlier as the programme you are running (FS2002) wouln't allow it. Simple explination is that FS whether running in 2D (windowed) or 3D (full Screen) hogs recourses. Youre main screen is running both scenery and panel and is using as much as the system will allow. Now (as you sugested in Q2) you can have your main screen running the scenery and undock and move your panel to the other (2nd'ry) screen with no loss of performance. You can run the main screen as you do now and if you have FSNav then undock that and move it to the second screen, again with no loss of performance. Now if you have FS running on your main screen and you fancy another view of the aircraft whether it be spot or internal side window view this is where the whole thing comes to a grinding halt. This is what I've found with the Matrox DualHead and I know Mel uses these so maybe he has a solution to this that I'm unaware of. Regards, James. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Mike_Greenwood Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 2. "RE: Multiple monitors" 01-22-02, 22:55z  Hi Ben, James is correct. The only way to get multiple 3d views is to have a seperate computer drive each monitor (using wideview). A setup with a dual head card or multiple display adapters is perfect for 2d parts like the comm stack, and throttle quadrant, or FSNAV. Even without multiple rigs to drive additional 3d views, I highly recommend more monitors. --Greenie **6 miles SSE KSJC** Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

WScofield Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 3. "RE: Multiple monitors" 01-23-02, 02:22z  Hi Greenie - >James is correct. The only way to get multiple 3d views is >to have a seperate computer drive each monitor (using >wideview). A setup with a dual head card or multiple >display adapters is perfect for 2d parts like the comm >stack, and throttle quadrant, or FSNAV. Even without >multiple rigs to drive additional 3d views, I highly >recommend more monitors. I'm right there with Ben, looking for a primer on how to get to square one with this mutiple-monitor, multiple-computer stuff. I have a couple of monitors, and one or two "old kind" computers around, in addition to my main desktop (and a new one coming) and a decent laptop. At least three of those have the wherewithall to run FS2K2, not to mention other software. But I need a helping hand to know where to begin setting this all up. If I could get the instruments on one screen, and the windshield or spot plane view on another, I would consider that an accomplishment, not to mention the GPS or the radio stack. So . . . where do I begin? William Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Mike_Greenwood Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 4. "RE: Multiple monitors" 01-23-02, 06:50z  Hi William, >>I'm right there with Ben, looking for a primer on how to get to square one with this mutiple-monitor, multiple-computer stuff.<< No problem. To run multiple monitors you need win98SE up to WinXP. If you're there, then you need to have either a dual head card (like the Matrox you've read about here), or an additional display adapter (card) for each monitor. When I first started with multiple displays, AGP was the rage, and it was hell trying to find good PCI cards for the additional monitors (motherboards only have one agp slot). Now the display card makers are wise to this fact, and good PCI cards are available once again. The key in my setup is to have the same chipset for all 3 cards. NVIDIA is my choice, and now they have the all-in-one driver. That means when you download and install the latest driver, it upgrades the drivers for all 3 of my cards (one geforce 2, and two vantas). Once the cards and drivers are installed, it's only a matter of going to your display settings, and set up and activate each new display. Each display can have different setting. In my case, I have one 19" CRT, and two 15" lcd displays. The 19 is set to 1280x768 while the LCDs are set to their max of 1024x768. Now fire up FS and start undocking windows. Once undocked, move them to other displays, and resize as you see fit. As long as they're only 2d windows, you'll see no performance hit. If you try a 3d window, expect a slideshow Multiple systems is a different ballgame entirely. For that you need multiple systems with an OS and FS installed on each one. You'll need wideview installed on each machine as well. Your main machine is the host or server, and the other machines are clients. You start FS on all machines, and start wideview as well. Once it's set-up properly, the server will feed the clients all the info for the display. Ideally, the clients will be set to show the outside 3d view only (no instrument panel)at a particular angle (left 45 deg, right 45 deg, etc depending on how many displays). Since each computer is only driving one 3d view, the result is very smooth and quite pleasing. For serious flights, I will do this for my other 2 displays. Otherwise, I use the multiple display and put FSNAV on one screen and the throttle quadrant and radio stack on the other. It's the ONLY way to fly! Give me a shout if you have any more questions. --Greenie **6 miles SSE KSJC** Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Ben Chiu Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 5. "RE: Multiple monitors" 01-23-02, 06:59z  >Give me a shout if you have any more questions. How about a pix of your setup, Mike? Ben Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Mike_Greenwood Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 10. "RE: Multiple monitors" 01-23-02, 23:37z  >>How about a pix of your setup, Mike? << Not a problem! Not as fancy as James' or Mel's, but it works --Greenie **6 miles SSE KSJC** Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RandyHaskins Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 11. "RE: Multiple monitors" 01-24-02, 00:25z  Hi Mike, OK, where did you get that sticker above the flaps switch <s>. Randy Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Mike_Greenwood Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 12. "RE: Multiple monitors" 01-24-02, 04:13z  >>OK, where did you get that sticker above the flaps switch <s>.<< Hehe, you noticed that! <g> That sticker comes with a pretty incredible package from FlightAdventures called solo in a weekend. I *have* signed up and received my package, but have some other stuff to take care of before I book my weekend. Trust me, there will be pics and videos when I finally do it. Ask Ben for details! --Greenie **6 miles SSE KSJC** Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

WScofield Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 6. "RE: Multiple monitors" 01-23-02, 14:50z  Hi Mike - >Give me a shout if you have any more questions. I have to say, that was about as lucid an explanation as I could imagine. Thanks! It certainly gives me a place to start. A couple of questions, before I start rolling. For the m ultiple computer setup, do the computers all have to be hooked together on, say, an ethernet network? Or are we talking about direct connections of some kind? Also, can the client computers run more than one monitor (assuming they have either a multiport video card, or more than one video card)? Thanks again. William Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

James Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 7. "RE: Multiple monitors" 01-23-02, 16:29z  Hi William, >> do the computers all have to be hooked together on << 2 way's to achieve this In Win98SE it is recommended to operate the network on a hub (10/100 4 or 8 socket) with each pc on an ethernet card. The other is with Win XP you can use the pc to pc option using a USB cable. >> can the client computers run more than one monitor << Yes. Regards, James. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

WScofield Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 8. "RE: Multiple monitors" 01-23-02, 21:26z  Hi James - Thanks. I should be able to get things going, as I currently have a small network sharing an Internet connection. Maybe I'll take Greenie's suggestion, and stuff a couple of extra video cards in as well. WideView, I take it, is the key to the multi-computer arrangement. I'll take a look. William Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

James Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 9. "RE: Multiple monitors" 01-23-02, 22:30z  Hi William, >> WideView, I take it, is the key to the multi-computer arrangement. I'll take a look. << Yep, URL I have is http://wideview.00server.com/ and look for file widev2k2.zip and note this is for FS2002 only. If you are on FS2000 or earlier then go for a compatable version. Regards, James. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RickLee Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 13. "RE: Multiple monitors" 01-24-02, 04:15z  I wonder how far down on the food chain one can go to get another computer running instruments for FS2002. I have <ahem> several old laptops lying around. The most recent is a Pentium II something or other I think. I may try sticking it on the network. Am I correct in assuming that Wideview can be used to put instruments on another computer? (not just other 3d views?) Rick Lee www.rickleephoto.com Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

James Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 14. "RE: Multiple monitors" 01-24-02, 10:08z  HI Rick, Wideview will have multiple copies of FS2002 (FS98 FS2000) running in unison from the Server pc to it's networked pc (Clients). You can have any type of view running from the clients but, I don't think you will get the aircraft panels to work from (be controlled) by the client pc. I use the Project Magenta GC software on my main pc but control it from a client as the software is designed for this You can try messing with the config file's on both client/server and see but I don't think you will get much joy from it. Regards, James. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Tarmack Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 15. "RE: Multiple monitors" 01-27-02, 12:20z  Rick, and all in this thread, Sorry to have been AWOL for awhile from the forum and having missed this thread until this morning ! Pretty much everything has been said about the how's and why's in the various replies.......so I would just like to add some ENCOURAGEMENT to those of you who are just getting started with the multi monitor setup. It IS worth it.....and the FIRST time that you takeoff from a runway, say 14R at ORD.....and then fly a left hand traffic pattern at 2000 AGL for a touch and go back on the same runway of 14R.....and NEVER EVER lose sight of that airport out of your left side views........you will THEN know that your setup was all worth it !! I do feel that we are going to see more and more multi monitor home cockpits because of the EASE of setting up a LAN with WinXP. I am sure that James, Greenie, and myself have spent MANY an HOURS<g> in the past with the old WinSE, ME, etc., in doing that LAN setup because it used to be so darn HARD to get everything to sing from the same page. NOT today.....WinXP makes it very easy with the Wizards......and to top it all off....you can buy a 10/100 ethernet card for less than 20 bucks.......or if you are in the market for a new computer the networked card is already onboard in most cases. WideView does not yet permit the Instrument panels to be spread out over other Clients from the Server....so until Luciano comes up with that brainchild.....it IS best to use the Project Magenta software to have the Primary Flight Display, the Navigation Display, and the EICAS display on other Clients and screens. NOW, all your Server has to do is provide an OUTSIDE view...and that greatly relieves its workload and gives you superb frame rates EVEN in 2D mode. I run ALL of my clients.......4 of them powering 8 monitors...in 2D mode. Each of those 4 clients AND the 1 Server are all using the Matrox G-550 dual head cards and run at 2048x1024 resolution ACROSS 2 monitors per computer. My resolution setting for FS2002 is 1024x760. I limit my frame rates to 16 fps for the Server to keep the "blurries" away......and I run the Clients at 10 fps for the same reason........this still allows those Sliders to ALL go full to the Right ! My Server computer is a Dell 1.5 ghz. The Clients are a mix mash of brands....and run from a 900 AMD, a 1.1 P4, a 650 P3, and a 1.5 P4. The Instrument portion of the cockpit has a P4 1.5 running the PFD and ND(this is OVERKILL for speeds.....not needed but nice) and a lowly HP 450mhz that runs the CDU and MCP software. I would recommend that when you begin this plunge.....you first PLAN your layout for what you NOW have....and for what you MIGHT have in the future. In other words....allocate DESKTOP space NOW....so that when you do add more screens and CPU'S later that you do not have to change your "core". You WILL add more later. Grin. It is also very much simpler, for that future time.......to have ALL monitors the SAME size....so that your horizon lines are easier to maintain on those outside view turns....and luckily with 15" monitors so CHEAP these days....almost anyone can afford to buy more.....NOT forgetting that IF you are using the Matrox G-550's....that you ARE turning TWO 15" monitors into ONE 30 INCH MONITOR! I think a nice basic starting point would be two add at least TWO computers to your current FS2002 setup....and I would place them as a Look Forward Left and a Look Left setup along with your regular Look Forward view of your current display. You will then do a lot of LEFT turns in the pattern. Grin. Until you add the Magenta software.....you can switch your Server view between regular and Virtual cockpit views.....using the regular Instrument view for takeoff....the VC view for the pattern flying, or enroute...and then back to regular for the landing. Once you have added enough computers and monitors to use Magenta for the inside stuff.......you can keep that Server banging away with the W key of nothing but enjoyable outside views. Okay.......off of the soap box........time to fire em up. Grin. Regards, Cap'n Tarmack Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RickLee Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 16. "RE: Multiple monitors" 01-27-02, 14:52z  Thanks a million Mel, that magazine-article-of-a-reply really cleared up a lot of questions for me. My biggest problem is, at this particular moment in my life, it's not the cash that's the problem... I just don't have a place to erect such a setup. Heck, I've got enough spare parts to build another decent computer in the closet. But I don't know where I'd put even one more CRT-type monitor. It would be cool if I could set up a spare laptop next to my monitor to run instruments. What I'd LOVE to experiment with (someday) would be a 5-monitor setup from left to right (at least a 3 monitor setup which you recommended with front, front-left, and left) with fresnel lenses on them arranged so that the scenes blended together and looked far away. Real virtual-reality stuff which could be done very cheaply. This would be a very different setup than anything I've seen a home-cockpit builder do before. The lenses would be very close to the viewer... the operator would be inside a semicircle of lenses only about a foot from his head... to get an idea of what I'm talking about, see the article on experiments at Boeing using a mosaic of fresnels on my website. http://www.rickleephoto.com/mosaicfresnel.htm Rick Lee www.rickleephoto.com Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Tarmack Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 17. "RE: Multiple monitors" 01-27-02, 16:01z  Rick, I just read that entire article on your Website.......and it was fascinating.......thanks ! I would think however, that the type of arrangement that puts the fresnel lens about a foot, or so, from the head of the pilot in a circular fashion would be more reproductive of a "fighter" type of airplane. My 10 monitors that run in a 180 degree arc, from left to right, produce a 270 degree field of vision view from FS2002. The 4 left side monitors are about 2 feet from my head...and the 4 right side monitors are about 5 feet from my head, while the 2 forward view monitors are about 3 feet. That dimension fairly closely replicates the interior of the "Queen"....the one that comes with 4 Pratt 4056 engines. Grin. I also found it VERY important, with those views.....to REMOVE all suggestions of the other environment in an "office/den/bedroom" type of enclosure. So, I have suspended from the ceiling, and extended from the walls on 3 sides....large "sheets" of black foam covered panels.......purchased at Office Depot. This type of enclosure only allows me to see the monitors.....that are ALSO "bordered" with the same type of black paper covered foam panels. I simply measured each monitor for the size of its "case".....and then cut out the exact screen dimension/hole.....I fastened them to the monitors with velcro tape....and now all I see is BLACK...until I turn them on. I in effect "crawl into" my cockpit and never look back. Grin. Back behind me is a large screen TV and a desk that has my Web computer and monitors along with a phone, a fax, and a nice leather "jumpseat" type of chair......and of course the obligatory small "fridge' for a refreshment of my choice. Grin. Under my leather office chair is a "doggy bed" for my trusty copilot, Curtiss the Wonder Dawg ! I have "blacked out" the one window in this 12 x 14 foot "bedroom" that was given to me by my wife.....seeing as how we only had 3 kids and we have 4 bedrooms. Grin. I wish I was a vendor again.......as you mentioned that money was not a problem. Grin. I would then suggest that you ONLY purchase 15" TFT monitors.....and place them on a "shelf/ledge" at about the 38 inche level....all of them at the same height. That will then leave you room for 3 more monitors that repilcate your instrument panel views at about the 30 inchel level. When I "leaned" forward to adjust the MCP control panel on the Boeing...my "beer storage pouch" just "brushed" the control column.......on the airplane. Here....it does the same. Grin. All of my computers are arranged on a table in the upper right hand corner of the room....and I made extensive use of monitor extender cables.....I have purchased 8 Fellowes "mouse/touchpads" with 8 more extender cables...and all 8 keyboards are 'stacked" on my left side........UNDER the left monitors shelf....in order of their respective screens/views.......ie. keyboard on top runs the first 2 monitors....keyboard next down runs the next 2 monitors....etc. These keyboards are hidden behind another one of those black foam covered boards and out of sight and mind. I "run" most of my computers via the LAN.........all installs of new scenery, view changes in the panel.cfg files for various airplanes....are all done on THIS computer.......my Web engine.........via the LAN. I don't think I touch those keyboards more than once every other month.......just get by in this manner. I use the Fellowes mouse pads for shutting down and starting up the various flights. If you also get more elaborate as I have done....the Goflight line of hardware really lets you build a nice center console for control of freq's, courses, headings, altitudes, speeds, etc.,.......and once I recieve the Aerosoft 747 MCP........I don't think I will have to use a mouse at ANY time to do ANYTHING in FS2002...except to start it up and shut it down. Okay...nuff soap box again.......now it is FOOTBALL time !! Regards, Mel Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

James Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 18. "RE: Multiple monitors" 01-28-02, 14:43z  Hi Mel, Great write up's, interesting Have to agree on the Network set up in Win XP There was only one thing I had to change and that was the Adapter Frame type for some unknown reason I'm just finishing my 5th pc up-grade and slotting another Matrox G450 DualHead Card in but at present still can't get descent frame rates etc when I try to open another window view!! How do you set yours up to play ball Regards, James. p.s. The Matrox DH'ds are in an AMD Athlon 1.3 and a 1.4. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Tarmack Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 19. "RE: Multiple monitors" 01-28-02, 22:39z  James, I never open more than one window on any Matrox card.......they all and always run in 2D mode. Be sure that you have the very latest WinXP drivers for the Matrox cards.....they are the same for the G450 and the G-550. These are the drivers that let you spread your view, one view, across two monitors. Regards, Mel Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

James Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 20. "RE: Multiple monitors" 01-30-02, 18:12z  Hi Mel, Thanks. Just finished building my latest machine An AMP Athlon 1.6 on a K&T266 Pro2 MoBo . After shuffling them all around now I'm re installing PM stuff <g>. I'm using the latest G450 Drivers for XP but not gotten into >> spread your view, one view, across two monitors. << yet. Will this give you a forward left/right view and a left/right view?? Regards, James. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Tarmack Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 21. "RE: Multiple monitors" 01-31-02, 12:48z  James, With the drivers installed.....simply click onto Properties Settings and select the 2048 graphics mode.....making sure that you have also configured the G-450 card to use IDENTICAL outputs for each monitor. Do that by clicking onto Properties/Settings/Advanced/Dualhead/Advanced/Features/DualHeadMultiDisplay. Your view then possible is ONE selection......either LookForwardLeft or LookLeft.....but it is a 30 inch view....rather than 15 inches. I know you will kike it once you try it ! Regards, Mel Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

James Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 22. "RE: Multiple monitors" 01-31-02, 23:13z  Thanks Mel, will try it over the week end Regards, James. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

jonahbird Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 23. "RE: Multiple monitors" 08-05-02, 10:35z  Hi Greenie I have your excellent briefing on this process earmarked, and have just been re-reading it. I'm about to install a projector and change my 19" CRT for an 18" TFT. I will run these with my existing 15" TFT. The objective being - scenery thru projection; panel on 18" TFT; and FSNav on 15" TFT. In reading your post I wonder why you have set your CRT to 1280 x 728. Wouldn't 1280 x 1024 be better? Best regards Frank Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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