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jhayes_tucson Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 10. "RE: Wide (way out) Patterns..." 09-23-07, 04:18z  Boy have you struck a sore subject! As a TBM 700 pilot who flies mostly IFR, I haven't spent much time flying the pattern lately; however, during my recent Extra 300 check out I became acquainted with the training scene at one of our local airports near Tucson and I am appalled! First, the size of the pattern seems inversely proportional to the speed of the aircraft. We have 60-70 kt experimentals flying downwind 3 miles from the runway, Cherokees on 4 mile final, and 172s headed out over 2 miles from the airport before turning crosswind! I've seen aircraft at 150 feet AGL on final and a mile from the runway; not to mention pattern altitudes that are all over the place. Last Friday, some fellow who wasn't paying any attention, turned base and put himself on a direct collision course with me while I was on a mile final (after having to fly a 3 mile final behind some distance challenged instructor.) I applied power, put a wing up and announced that we were breaking off our approach due to be cut off. (I was much too busy to pay much attention to the complicated apology that ensued on frequency as I went around.) It's hard to blame the students, but who in the world taught the instructors how to fly? Worse still, the radio work has deteriorated to a complete mess. We have folks making two position reports on crosswind, three on downwind, and three on final. In a busy pattern, no one can get a word in edgewise. Based on my experience, I don't think anyone is listening anyway--there are just too many garbage position reports. My favorite is, "Cherokee N123X 5 miles out on a left 45 for 12, traffic in the pattern please advise." What is everyone supposed to do...get on frequency all at once just to tell each guy inbound where they are? Pilots inbound, just listen up! You'll quickly figure out what is going on. The FAA is equally disturbed by this practice and has issued specific instructions in the 2007 AIM prohibiting this type of radio call. It looks to me like the local VFR pilots have developed a lot of bad and potentially dangerous habits. Whew...thanks for bringing it up--I needed to get that out of my system. John Hayes Tucson, AZ Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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Subject      Author      Message Date     ID      Wide (way out) Patterns...    DHamblin       03-19-03              RE: Wide (way out) Patterns...    Bruce_Williams       03-19-03       1            RE: Wide (way out) Patterns...    DHamblin       03-20-03       2                 RE: Wide (way out) Patterns...    Ben_Chiu       03-22-03       3                      RE: Wide (way out) Patterns...    jerryrosie       04-09-03       4                           RE: Wide (way out) Patterns...    DHamblin       04-09-03       5                           RE: Wide (way out) Patterns...    Ben_Chiu       04-09-03       6                                RE: Wide (way out) Patterns...    jerryrosie       04-12-03       7                                     RE: Wide (way out) Patterns...    Ben_Chiu       04-12-03       8                                          RE: Wide (way out) Patterns...    jerryrosie       04-13-03       9                                               RE: Wide (way out) Patterns...    ChrisBebensee       07-17-09       11         RE: Wide (way out) Patterns...    jhayes_tucson       09-23-07       10

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