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dzoellner Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: "Advice for Emergency Dead Stick Landing in Extra 300?" 10-21-04, 08:20z  I'm a brand new Extra 300 owner... this my dream plane and I am truly excited to own it! I am in the process of a 15 hour checkout per insurance requirements (and per common sense ) So far, I only have 2 hours logged in the Extra. My biggest fear in the Extra is an emergency, off-airport landing... especially if the engine fails. With a high approach speed and potentially fast sink rate, I imagine some scary scenarios for landing. I have heard some say they would simply bail out of the aircraft if the engine quit, but I am not sure I agree. What advice can you give regarding this type of emergency landing in the Extra 300? (For reference, I am a 1000+ hour multi-engine, instrument rated pilot, with 40 hours tailwheel time in a Cessna 150 Aerobat. I know... going from an Aerobat to an Extra is quite a leap... ) Regards, DZoellner Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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Subject      Author      Message Date     ID      RE: Advice for Emergency Dead Stick... Patty_Wagstaff 10-21-04 1    RE: Advice for Emergency Dead Stick... dzoellner 10-21-04 2         RE: Advice for Emergency Dead Stick... Loop4fun 12-25-04 4         RE: Advice for Emergency Dead Stick... Patty_Wagstaff 05-09-05 6    RE: Advice for Emergency Dead Stick... djmolny 01-05-05 5   RE: Advice for Emergency Dead Stick... Antin 12-23-04 3    RE: Advice for Emergency Dead Stick... AndyNZ 11-16-06 8   RE: Advice for Emergency Dead Stick... ghmorris312 09-04-05 7    RE: Advice for Emergency Dead Stick... Patty_Wagstaff 11-16-06 9

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Patty_Wagstaff Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 1. "RE: Advice for Emergency Dead Stick Landing in Extra 300?" 10-21-04, 11:27z  Hello DZoellner First of all, if you keep enough fuel in the airplane and maintain the engine, the Lycoming engine is very reliable and a sudden engine failure is very rare. Second, the Extra is built like a tank. Unless I had structural failure (not going to happen in an Extra, I can pretty much guarantee you that); or fire (again, good maintenance should prevent faulty wiring etc.); then I'd stay with the airplane. Practice emergency landings. Cut the power to idle and glide in. You'll be surprised at how quickly the airplane comes down as yes, it does have a high sink rate. I practice these quite often. You have to pick your spot right away and go for it and stick with it....but you need to practice. I've known of a couple of people who've had to make off field emergency landings, and both ended up ok. If you have to land in a field and can stop the roll out with a fence or something not too hard, you should be ok...plus if you're on grass or something like that, the airplane will stop fairly quickly. I also carry a pretty heavy duty knife that is tie-wrapped to the tubing on the left side of my airplane where I can reach it, just in case I get upside down and need to get out. Keep the airpane maintained well, lots of fuel in it, when going x=country, give yourself some altitude, keep your options open and it's your call ultimately, but I'd probably stick with the airplane myself. Regards Patty Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dzoellner Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 2. "RE: Advice for Emergency Dead Stick Landing in Extra 300?" 10-21-04, 19:57z  Patty --- thanks for the quick reply. That is encouraging, and yes, I plan to practice this procedure. One last item: You mentioned "just in case I get upside down"... have you heard of any instances of this? It seems to be a very tight clearance, if any, between the cockpit and the ground if the plane flips. Do you think you could get out? (I like the idea of strapping a knife to the tubing in order to break the canopy, or cutting any entanglements.) Your thoughts are greatly appreciated. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Loop4fun Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 4. "RE: Advice for Emergency Dead Stick Landing in Extra 300?" 12-25-04, 03:08z  As I understand, the Extra landing gear is designed to fold back under stress so as not to flip the airplane upside down as easily as a Pitt's gear would for example. It worked for me...had plenty of fuel and a brand new engine. So it happens. I need to put a heavy knife of some kind in as Patty discussed, but need it engineered so that there would be no chance of it coming loose. BD Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Patty_Wagstaff Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 6. "RE: Advice for Emergency Dead Stick Landing in Extra 300?" 05-09-05, 00:18z  >Patty --- thanks for the quick reply. That is encouraging, >and yes, I plan to practice this procedure. > >One last item: >You mentioned "just in case I get upside down"... have you >heard of any instances of this? It seems to be a very >tight clearance, if any, between the cockpit and the >ground if the plane flips. Do you think you could get out? >(I like the idea of strapping a knife to the tubing in >order to break the canopy, or cutting any entanglements.) > >Your thoughts are greatly appreciated. I'm so sorry for not keeping up with the forum. Between a knee injury, getting ready for airhsow season, new engine in the airplane, etc. I'm way behind. Okay, to answer your question. I have not heard of any instances of an Extra flipping over. I assume it would only happen if you had to land in a very rough area or ditch in the water. The tail stands higher than the cockpit so I think you'd have some clearance, and also there is a build in roll bar behind your seat. However, I do have a heavy duty knife strapped to the tubing by my seat just in case. Patty Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

djmolny Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 5. "RE: Advice for Emergency Dead Stick Landing in Extra 300?" 01-05-05, 06:16z  Patty's word is, of course, gospel. But to add credence to her advice: I met a guy who cartwheeled a 300L right down the judges line at a contest. (Messed-up landing in an unfamiliar plane.) The aircraft was, of course, a total and utter wreck. He crawled out of the debris with a few broken ribs. These planes are STOUT. DJ Molny IAC Chapter 12 Rocky Mountain Aerobatic Club Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Antin Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 3. "RE: Advice for Emergency Dead Stick Landing in Extra 300?" 12-23-04, 23:38z  Go practice with your instructor and see if you can do a 360 degree overhead approach. I used to own an Extra 300 (N45R) and have about 400 or so hours in it. I preferred the overhead to any other landing because it was easier to keep the filed in sight. I guess you've noticed how visibility sucks in the airplane (it's better in the "L" than the straight 300). Anyway, once you master the overhead, you'll find it a lot easier. I always thought it would be a lot easier to do in case of an engine failure because I always practiced it with no throttle anyway. Try going over the threshold at 100 KTs, and 1000 ft. AGL. Pull the throttle all the way and immediately break left. Keep your speed between 80-90 (slowing even more as you roll out onto very short (and low) final. Again, make sure you practice with your instructor first. Once you find the speed/bank/pitch combination that works best for you, you've got it made. Warmly, Brad P.S. I haven't flown in about 3 years, and I did it more by feel than numbers even then, but I think I remembered them correctly. Adjust them as needed. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

AndyNZ Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 8. "RE: Advice for Emergency Dead Stick Landing in Extra 300?" 11-16-06, 21:38z  LAST EDITED ON 11-16-06 AT 21:38z () >Go practice with your instructor and see if you can do a >360 degree overhead approach. > >I used to own an Extra 300 (N45R) and have about 400 or so >hours in it. I preferred the overhead to any other >landing because it was easier to keep the filed in sight. > >I guess you've noticed how visibility sucks in the >airplane (it's better in the "L" than the straight 300). > >Anyway, once you master the overhead, you'll find it a lot >easier. I always thought it would be a lot easier to do >in case of an engine failure because I always practiced it >with no throttle anyway. > >Try going over the threshold at 100 KTs, and 1000 ft. AGL. > Pull the throttle all the way and immediately break left. > Keep your speed between 80-90 (slowing even more as you >roll out onto very short (and low) final. > >Again, make sure you practice with your instructor first. > >Once you find the speed/bank/pitch combination that works >best for you, you've got it made. > >Warmly, >Brad > >P.S. I haven't flown in about 3 years, and I did it more >by feel than numbers even then, but I think I remembered >them correctly. Adjust them as needed. That is a very interesting technique - our syndicate instructor, is an ex USN Pilot, teaches an identical method, for new members getting ratings on our aeroplane -so I'd assume you all teach FLWOPs in a similar way in the US, marking out the different stages in the approach, with the 360 position, 180, 135, 90 45 in relation to finals. I assumed that Extras and the like would have relatively good glide ability, compared to say, the Pitts, or radial machines like our Yak 52, but evidently they all come down rather quickly. I have found it easier to put the Yak down without power than normal GA aircraft, as there is virtually no chance of overshooting, and there is always that airbrake in the form of the single position 45 degree split flaps once you are 100% sure of being in. Andy Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

ghmorris312 Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 7. "RE: Advice for Emergency Dead Stick Landing in Extra 300?" 09-04-05, 03:49z  Extras are wonderfully built airplanes, just be aware when you do your engine out practice that the prop will go to course, not fine pitch if the engine stops. In this configuration you will have much less drag than if you pull the throttle back and leave the prop in. Make sure you don't overshoot your landing target. -Greg Morris- Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Patty_Wagstaff Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 9. "RE: Advice for Emergency Dead Stick Landing in Extra 300?" 11-16-06, 23:46z  Greg et al Yes, and the prop in coarse pitch has a big effect on the glide distance, shortening it. However, if you want to extend the glide - and I've had to do this one in an emergency landing to get over some runway lights (long story for another time - then pull the prop handle all the way back, and you'll be amazed at how much you can stretch the glide. I practice this occasionally too. Patty Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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