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Ben_Chiu

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"Matrox Parhelia"
08-12-02, 20:42z

Greetings:
All of the talk about multiple monitors has me wondering if anyone has tried or heard anything good or bad about Matrox's Parhelia. With 3D support for 3 monitors, and FS2K2 support, it sounds like it may be what some of us are looking for. But marketing hype and real world performance sometimes differ, so it'd be good to hear comments about actual use.
Thanks!
Ben

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Original message

  Subject      Author      Message Date     ID

RE: Matrox Parhelia James 08-12-02 1

   RE: Matrox Parhelia Ben_Chiu 08-12-02 2

        RE: Matrox Parhelia jonahbird 08-13-02 3

        RE: Matrox Parhelia James 08-13-02 6

   RE: Matrox Parhelia PeteDowson 08-13-02 4

        RE: Matrox Parhelia James 08-13-02 5

   RE: Matrox Parhelia Mike_Greenwood 08-13-02 7

        RE: Matrox Parhelia James 08-13-02 8

RE: Matrox Parhelia brynjames 08-14-02 9

   RE: Matrox Parhelia Ben_Chiu 08-14-02 10

        RE: Matrox Parhelia PeteDowson 08-14-02 11

             RE: Matrox Parhelia Ben_Chiu 08-14-02 12

                  RE: Matrox Parhelia PeteDowson 08-14-02 13

                       RE: Matrox Parhelia Tarmack 08-24-02 14

                            RE: Matrox Parhelia PaulCroft 08-25-02 15

                                 RE: Matrox Parhelia Tarmack 08-25-02 16

                                      RE: Matrox Parhelia PaulCroft 08-26-02 18

                                           RE: Matrox Parhelia Tarmack 08-26-02 19

                                                RE: Matrox Parhelia PaulCroft 08-27-02 22

                                                     RE: Matrox Parhelia Tarmack 08-27-02 24

                                                          RE: Matrox Parhelia PaulCroft 08-28-02 26

                                           RE: Matrox Parhelia Snave 08-27-02 23

                                                RE: Matrox Parhelia Tarmack 08-27-02 25

                                                RE: Matrox Parhelia PaulCroft 08-28-02 27

                                      RE: Matrox Parhelia James 10-25-02 82

                                           RE: Matrox Parhelia PeteDowson 10-25-02 83

                                                RE: Matrox Parhelia James 10-26-02 84

                                                RE: Matrox Parhelia James 10-29-02 85

                                                     RE: Matrox Parhelia PeteDowson 10-30-02 86

                                                          RE: Matrox Parhelia James 10-30-02 87

                            RE: Matrox Parhelia Ben_Chiu 08-25-02 17

                                 RE: Matrox Parhelia Tarmack 08-26-02 20

                                      RE: Matrox Parhelia Ben_Chiu 08-27-02 21

                                      RE: Matrox Parhelia PeteDowson 09-25-02 28

                                      RE: Matrox Parhelia PeteDowson 09-25-02 29

                                           RE: Matrox Parhelia Tarmack 09-25-02 30

                                                RE: Matrox Parhelia Mike_Greenwood 09-26-02 35

                                                     RE: Matrox Parhelia Tarmack 09-26-02 37

                                                          RE: Matrox Parhelia Mike_Greenwood 09-26-02 49

                                                               RE: Matrox Parhelia Tarmack 09-27-02 54

                                                                    RE: Matrox Parhelia Tarmack 09-27-02 55

                                                                         RE: Matrox Parhelia Ben_Chiu 09-27-02 56

                                           RE: Matrox Parhelia Tarmack 09-25-02 31

                                                RE: Matrox Parhelia PeteDowson 09-25-02 34

                                                     RE: Matrox Parhelia Tarmack 09-26-02 36

                                                          RE: Matrox Parhelia PeteDowson 09-26-02 47

                                                RE: Matrox Parhelia PeteDowson 09-26-02 40

                                                     RE: Matrox Parhelia Tarmack 09-26-02 42

                                                          RE: Matrox Parhelia PeteDowson 09-26-02 48

                                                     RE: Matrox Parhelia brynjames 09-27-02 61

                                           RE: Matrox Parhelia Tarmack 09-26-02 41

                                      RE: Matrox Parhelia Guido_Ostkamp 09-28-02 76

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James

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1. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-12-02, 22:29z

Hi Ben,
I read about this card some place and for the life of me at present can't recall where. Still looking.
I have 2 pc's running the Matrox G450 in dual mode. The only problem I have with this card is that if the pc is running FS (any version) with your main window (monitor) running say the left front view you can't have the second monitor running the left view as you have to open another window and by doing this you get a massive fps hit.
I tend to have the second monitor running FSNav or another fs supported programme.
Regards,
James (CONman) Anderson

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Ben_Chiu

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2. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-12-02, 23:22z

Greetings James:
> I have 2 pc's running the Matrox G450 in dual mode. The only problem I
> have with this card is that if the pc is running FS (any version) with
> your main window (monitor) running say the left front view you can't
> have the second monitor running the left view as you have to open
> another window and by doing this you get a massive fps hit.
I've got a GeForce2 with multiple outs and have the same problem. That's what makes this new card so interesting. There are supposed to be 3 sets of GPU's on the card--one to handle each video out. 3D is not supposed to suffer on the other monitors. Well, I take that back, 3D does take a frame hit (minimal comparted to what we both have), but my understanding is the main CPU becomes the bottleneck at that point because it can't supply the information fast enough to keep up with the cards output.
Will be interesting to see how well it handles FS2K2.
Ben

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jonahbird

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3. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-13-02, 04:06z

Hi Ben
I can't find the copy now , but I do remember reading something to the effect that this card distributes the pixels between the three images. This made me think that a resolution divided by 3 would not give a very satisfying result.
The thing that caught my eye in the ads is the triple display unit - like 3 TFTs in a special stand. There is no reference to that. So if artistic imagination can be used to advertise the product might there not be some exaggerated claims made about the card's performance - I thought!
A well known supplier,in this country, of things FS is sceptical.
Regards
Frank

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James

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6. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-13-02, 13:30z

Hi Ben,
See my reply also to Pete <s>.
>> Will be interesting to see how well it handles FS2K2. <<
Going by the article in Computer Pilot (haven't been to Matrox's web site to look yet) it's got "out of the box" support for FS2002?!
Regards,
James (CONman) Anderson

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PeteDowson

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4. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-13-02, 11:09z

Hi James,
> I read about this card some place and for the life of me at present
> can't recall where. Still looking.
The July/August edition of Computer Pilot magazine has a brief description on page 12. It has an astonishing picture with it showing what looks to be a three TFT panel with FS in real wide screen spread across it. I don't know if that's a real device or an artist's impression!
But of course it doesn't show the frame rate on the screen! <G>
All past efforts to allow the 3D view to be spread over more than one screen, or to open up more than one such window, have resulted in unflyable frame rates. So I have to reserve judgement on this -- one of you will have to rush out and buy one, and come back and tell us! <G>
> I have 2 pc's running the Matrox G450 in dual mode. The only problem I
> have with this card is that if the pc is running FS (any version) with
> your main window (monitor) running say the left front view you can't
> have the second monitor running the left view as you have to open
> another window and by doing this you get a massive fps hit.
Yes, same if you just try to spread a single view over the two (or more) screens. Maybe the Parhelia will solve this for us?
> I tend to have the second monitor running FSNav or another fs supported
> programme.
I've given up having second monitors now and just have more computers, one monitor to each, instead. <G>
Regards,
Pete
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James

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5. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-13-02, 13:30z

Hi Pete,
>> The July/August edition of Computer Pilot magazine has a brief description on page 12. <<
Thanks mate, knew I read it some place. (PC Aviator sent me the mag - continuation of Microwings Subs) <g>
It looks more like an artists impression to me <G>. Going by the article it sounds a good card but I bet the price will be around the x3 card figure <G>.
>> one of you will have to rush out and buy one, and come back and tell us! <G> <<
You sending the cheque <LOL>.
>> I've given up having second monitors now and just have more computers, one monitor to each, instead. <G> <<
I may well go down that road to in the not to distant future.
Regards,
James (CONman) Anderson

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Mike_Greenwood

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7. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-13-02, 17:54z

Hi James,
>>you can't
have the second monitor running the left view as you have to open
another window and by doing this you get a massive fps hit.<<
Unfortunately, that's been the biggest problem with multiple monitors on a single PC. To get acceptable performance with multiple 3d views, you need a separate PC to drive each monitor, and use wideview to link them all together. Mel does that with his cockpit setup.

--Greenie
**6 miles SSE KSJC**
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James

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8. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-13-02, 21:31z

Hi Mike,
Yep I know mel's setup <s> and I'm gradually getting rid of my dual cards and building new pc's <g>.
Just got rid of three keyboards and mice with a data switch <g> so much easier.
Regards,
James (CONman) Anderson

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brynjames

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9. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-14-02, 16:09z

Big report at http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/hardware/reviews/matrox_parhelia/
on a number of different sorts of games and sims.
The writer is very active on combat flight sim groups.
He liked it

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Ben_Chiu

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10. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-14-02, 18:56z

Thanks for the link, Bryn.
You know, I guess I'm dense, but are the FS2K2 number he posted (15-16 fps @ 1024 x 768 thru 1600 x 1200) for surround mode or single monitor mode? If it's for three-monitor surround mode, then WOAH! That's flyable!
Thanks again!
Ben

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PeteDowson

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11. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-14-02, 21:43z

Ho Ben,
PMFJI,
> You know, I guess I'm dense, but are the FS2K2 number he posted (15-16
> fps @ 1024 x 768 thru 1600 x 1200) for surround mode or single monitor
> mode? If it's for three-monitor surround mode, then WOAH! That's
> flyable!
It couldn't have been for three-monitor surround mode because that's limited to 800 x 600 on each monitor (total 2400 x 600).
Regards,
Pete
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Ben_Chiu

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12. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-14-02, 22:08z

Greetings Pete:
> It couldn't have been for three-monitor surround mode because that's
> limited to 800 x 600 on each monitor (total 2400 x 600).
Well, then that's not so good. 15 frames at those resolutions on one monitor with that CPU is very unimpressive. Bummer...
Ben

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PeteDowson

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13. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-14-02, 23:26z

Hi Ben,
> Well, then that's not so good. 15 frames at those resolutions on one
> monitor with that CPU is very unimpressive. Bummer...
I agree. He did conclude in the review by pretty much saying it isn't a great performer, but offers great new facilities and scope. "Never mind the quality, feel the width" <G>
Regards,
Pete
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Tarmack

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14. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-24-02, 20:51z

Pete, Ben, Greenie and all,
This looks like a good place to come back in....at. Grin.
I have been gone for some time....did a 6 week motorhome trip with my 'dawg' up to see my 87 year old Dad in South Dakota and then we spent two weeks at the one week EAA airshow.
JUST...and I mean JUST before I left...the Fed Ex truck stopped and delivered my 3 Matrox Parhelia video cards.....I had to leave them in the boxes and await the install until I got back from the trip.
Now home and I have been running the Matrox Parhelia cards for about 3 weeks.
Observations....I LOVE EM!
I had planned to run 6 TFT monitors with 2 computers using just two of the video cards.....BUT.....you can only do a 640x480 resolution.......AT THIS TIME...due to limitations of DirectX.....and NOT Matrox....when using the triple head output.
Since I feel that I need at least 1024x760 graphics I run in DualHead mode with 3 computers using the 3 cards and the 6 monitors.
SPECTACULAR.......and my frame rates are all at the 30fps leve with sliders on HIGH. The resolutions and colors of the scenery are breathtaking.....way BETTER than my NVidia cards and with Eddie Denney's Terrain Mesh....you almost need to fly the U.S. all over again to see it the way it is and should be !
I run all 3 computers with a client, server, client setup..and all 3 run in Virtual Cockpit mode at the .50 View setting. This gives me an approximate 245 degree view of the horizon and it is easy to adjust the views for seamless runway lines and horizon lines during turns.
There have been a couple of updated drivers from Matrox and I am looking forward to a newer version of DirectX....to perhaps get to the real triple head mode........BUT if that does not happen.....the dualhead mode in 1024 graphics is the BEST I have yet seen or in my experience.
My cockpit setup did not have to change a bit....so it still looks like the older pictures that I used to send to Ben.....it is just that the outside views of FS2002 are so MUCH BETTER with these video cards.
Regards,
Cap'n Tarmack

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PaulCroft

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15. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-25-02, 07:14z

Hi Cap'n Tarmack
>> SPECTACULAR.......and my frame rates are all at the 30fps leve with
sliders on HIGH. <<
What's the rest of the PC spec please, especially WRT cpu and ram?
Paul Croft
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Tarmack

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16. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-25-02, 11:01z

Paul,

All 3 computers running the Matrox cards are 2.0 ghz and above...the server for FS2002 is a Dell 2.4 Northwood.
Initial install of the video cards had me a bit disappointed in the views.....blurry and loss of detail..but then under the advice of the Matrox support forum I did a REinstall of FS2002 after the video card installation.
Spectacular improvement in frame rates, clarity and colors....there must be something in the FS "engine" that recognizes features in these cards.

I had been running NVidia cards in all of my FS machines prior...the Ti4600 series....and never knew how much I was missing....the Matrox cards simply produce vibrant colors and much more clarity, along with much improved depth of views for the terrain features.
Regards,
Mel

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PaulCroft

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18. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-26-02, 07:16z

Hi Tarmack
>> All 3 computers running the Matrox cards are 2.0 ghz and above...the server for FS2002 is a Dell 2.4 Northwood. <<
That's some serious grunt power you've got there. Mind you, with any luck my Athlon 1900+ is not yet too far behind the curve.
>> Initial install of the video cards had me a bit disappointed in the
views.....blurry and loss of detail..but then under the advice of the
Matrox support forum I did a REinstall of FS2002 after the video card
installation. <<
That's one very handy tip. Did you uninstall FS2002 first or just re-install over the top of the existing version?
Paul Croft
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Tarmack

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19. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-26-02, 10:51z

Paul,
I did a complete UNinstall and then a reinstall...no problem as that still SAVES your flights, aircraft and scenery installations.
However, it does overwrite your old FS2002.cfg file.....hence that is the reason I had the question in this forum about how to enter the OLDMODULES entry into my new .cfg file.
I have found that the default selections of Medium or High for the Scenery sliders produces a better result than does a Custom slider arrangement....for frame rates and actual scenery clarity.....however you do have to select TriLinear functions manually.
I use the HIGH Scenery setting and Extreme Dense Scenery...and while I could use a higher frame rate speed...I use 30 fps...and FS2002 rarely dips below the 28fps range while flying.
The 30 fps setting really allows my server computer to "feed" 4 other computers that are running Project Magenta, FlightMax and Airplan....along with 18 USB inputs for GoFlight, Aerosoft MCP747 and the PFC center console hardware.
Regards,
Mel

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PaulCroft

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22. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-27-02, 10:00z

Hi Tarnack
>> However, it does overwrite your old FS2002.cfg file <<
OK, noted, as well as all your other findings.
One thing that I'm not clear on at the moment:- I understand the 640x480 limitation with 3 monitors but, if I only use it to run 2 monitors, could I run monitor 1 at 1280x1024 and monitor 2 at 1152x864 ?
Hi Tarnack
Paul Croft
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Tarmack

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24. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-27-02, 13:05z

Paul,
You must configure your card to use identical graphic sizes for BOTH monitors.
I am limited to 1024x768 because of my TFT monitors that have that as their highest resolution.
Regards,
Mel
>Hi Tarnack
>
>>> However, it does overwrite your old FS2002.cfg file <<
>
>OK, noted, as well as all your other findings.
>
>One thing that I'm not clear on at the moment:- I
>understand the 640x480 limitation with 3 monitors but, if
>I only use it to run 2 monitors, could I run monitor 1 at
>1280x1024 and monitor 2 at 1152x864 ?
>
>Hi Tarnack
>
>Paul Croft
>10 miles SE of Heathrow (EGLL)
>
>
>
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PaulCroft

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26. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-28-02, 07:20z

Hi Tarmack
>> You must configure your card to use identical graphic sizes for BOTH monitors. <<
Oh, that's OK then. My TFT goes to 1280x1024 and the CRT will be quite happy with that too.
Paul Croft
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Snave

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23. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-27-02, 12:54z

>>> Initial install of the video cards had me a bit disappointed in the
>views.....blurry and loss of detail..but then under the
>advice of the
>Matrox support forum I did a REinstall of FS2002 after the
>video card
>installation. <<
>
>That's one very handy tip. Did you uninstall FS2002 first
>or just re-install over the top of the existing version?

It's a tip that can only be confirmed by experiment. And given the state of tech support on FS issues in the Matrox forum, one I very much doubt they've done...
Personally, whenever I make substantive changes to FS (including a new version of Pete's FSUIPC) I just delete the FS2002.cfg file and force the sim to make a new one - considerably quicker restoring settings and assignments than completing a reinstall.
However, I am open to persusasion if anybody can tell me of improvements wrought by reinstalling after hardware upgrades...
I have heard this on several occasions, but have never yet seen any benefit for myself. Sounds like mythology masquerading as wisdom through repetition.
I spent some time looking at file sizes and arrangements after re-installing a bog-standard FS2002Pro installation like-for-like when I installed a GF3 Ti200 card on my uncles system.
There was absolutely no difference in file sizes or `shapes` I could discern (granted, with only an hours inspection).
The only active elements of FS2002 installations are .exe executables, derived from .cfg configuration files and .dll applications. I dont see what could be `picked up` or altered by the installation routine that can't also be picked up by forcing a new .cfg file..?
Is there any documentation on this? Perhaps some application lurking on the installation CD's that we should know about?
Simon Evans

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Tarmack

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25. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-27-02, 13:07z

Simon,
<<It's a tip that can only be confirmed by experiment. And given the state of tech support on FS issues in the Matrox forum, one I very much doubt they've done...>>
ROFL !
Agreed !
I didn't know about that deletion of the .cfg file...sure will save time next time!!
Regards,
Mel

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PaulCroft

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27. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-28-02, 07:20z

Hi Simon
Nice to see you here.
>> I just delete the FS2002.cfg file and force the sim to make a new one - considerably quicker restoring settings and assignments than completing a reinstall. <<
Actually, that makes a lot of sense. Guess I'll try that option first - it'll be a whole lot quicker if you're right, and if you're not there's very little to be lost.
Paul Croft
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James

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82. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
10-25-02, 22:07z

Hi Mel et al,
Installed Matrox Parhelia. Uninstalled FS and done a reinstall (as mentioned in other posts within the thread). Have any of you installed any of the software on the Parhelia CD? I've installed the Powerdesk and every time I attempt to run it I get different Process id and Thread id errors and it wouln't run! Any ideas out there?!
Regards,
James (CONman) Anderson
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PeteDowson

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83. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
10-25-02, 23:51z

Hi James,
> Installed Matrox Parhelia. Uninstalled FS and done a reinstall (as
> mentioned in other posts within the thread). Have any of you installed
> any of the software on the Parhelia CD? I've installed the Powerdesk and
> every time I attempt to run it I get different Process id and Thread id
> errors and it wouln't run! Any ideas out there?!
Installed it here -- only way to set it up as far as I can see, none of the usual settings in the video properties otherwise. Mind you, the drivers weren't any good on the CD, nor the later official ones (13th Sept) on the web site, kept hanging all the time in FS2002. I downloaded some Beta ones (version 1,2,0,31 dated 7th October) which have been much better so far. Try reading the Parhelia 3D gaming forum stuff about FS problems, it'll enlighten you!
FS2002 only runs full screen at 1920x480 (DirectX7 restriction). CFS3 runs okay at 3072 x 768, as does Grand Prix 4 (and that's fantastic!). F1 2002 won't though.
Regards,
Pete
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James

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84. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
10-26-02, 19:22z

Hi Pete,
FS2002 seems to run OK(ish) <G>. It's just the Parhelia's Powerdesk.exe that doesn't for some reason.
Will look in on their forum later. Thanks mate.
Regards,
James (CONman) Anderson
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James

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85. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
10-29-02, 22:25z

Hi Pete,
Where did you obtain (URL) the beta drivers 1.2.0.31?
Been to Matrox's web site and I can't find a URL/Link to the 3D gaming forum! Any chance of a pointer to it my friend :-)
Thanks in advance...
Regards,
James (CONman) Anderson
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PeteDowson

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86. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
10-30-02, 01:40z

Hi James,
> Where did you obtain (URL) the beta drivers 1.2.0.31?
>
> Been to Matrox's web site and I can't find a URL/Link to the 3D gaming
> forum! Any chance of a pointer to it my friend :-)
http://www.matrox.com/mga/support/forum/agree.cfm should take you to the Tech Support forum, via an agreement page, then you can get to the "Gaming" forum,
One of the threads about FS2002 and Parhelia had this:
>> Can you try the new Beta drivers that were released. You can find them here http://www.matrox.com/mga/support/drivers/files/2kxp_102_p.cfm <<
However, I now see that Matrox has made them official in any case (in the "Latest Matrox Drivers" page, the 1.02.00 drivers were just released this Monday!
Regards,
Pete
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James

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87. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
10-30-02, 11:32z

Hi Pete,
Thanks for the info my friend. Was on the Matrox site yesterday looking for new drivers but they were showing the one I already had. Will take another look later on :-) .
Thanks again......
Regards,
James (CONman) Anderson
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Ben_Chiu

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17. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-25-02, 22:50z

Welcome back, Mel!
Thanks for your insights into the Parhelia. That's just what I was looking for.
Just for clarification, what kind of slowdown, if any, do you see from running 1 monitor or 2 monitors in 3D mode? I've seen the benchmark numbers for the Parhelia vs. GeForce cards, but it's unclear whether these are based on single monitor or multiple monitor configurations.
Thanks!
Ben

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Tarmack

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20. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-26-02, 11:07z

Ben,
Well, it is nice to be back in the cozy surrounds of FlightAdventures!!
The Parhelia ONLY runs in multiple monitor mode when using 2D...if you use the Cntl/Alt key combo you will only get ONE monitor output.
Not to worry.....2D mode is simply outstanding and there is NO slowdown in frame rates whether you are using 1, 2, or 3 monitors. Antialiasing checkbox is NOT available in 2D mode.....but you don't need it as the Parhelia has built in features that provide the same smoothness while in 2D mode.
The card CAN provide 1024x760 graphics, or HIGHER, across 3 monitors for WinXP........however when you get to FS2002....the limitations of DirectX only allow 640x480 graphics across 3 monitors. Hence, until that software is updated, I am running two monitors at 1024x768 mode.
The DEFAULT and UNCHANGEABLE monitor setup for the Parhelia is 3,1,2 for your monitors and is 1,2 for a two monitor mode.
1 is my flying position for outside view center....with 3 and 2 becoming the periphreal view, left and right.
When using the 640x480 graphic mode to enable 3 monitor output...I found that using monitor 2 for my forward view and monitors 1 and 3 for a totally LEFT outside periphreal view gave me unacceptable NON LEVEL horizon lines on monitor 2, especially when flying the DC-3...or any tail dragger aircraft. I found that it is a requirement to use monitor 1, in the 3,1,2 arrangement for satisfactory horizon alignment.
Otherwise you always seem to want to fly WUNWINGLOW. grin.
This video card seems to unload the server CPU from a lot of extra work and allows SUPERB frame rates.....and in my opinion is MUCH faster than that of my Nvidia Ti4600's...not to mention the BETTER color and scenery clarity.
I am a real FAN of this card and couldn't be happier...even though I cannot use it as I had inteneded in the 3 monitor mode.....as we all await an update to DirectX for another try at that later. That later update will require me to reposition my monitor arrangement to allow that necessary monitor 1 to be my center view.
I know this is hard to follow with just words and not a picture to show what I mean. Grin.
Regards,
Mel

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Ben_Chiu

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21. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
08-27-02, 01:53z

Greetings Mel:

> The Parhelia ONLY runs in multiple monitor mode when using 2D...if you
> use the Cntl/Alt key combo you will only get ONE monitor output.
>
> Not to worry.....2D mode is simply outstanding and there is NO slowdown
> in frame rates whether you are using 1, 2, or 3 monitors. Antialiasing
> checkbox is NOT available in 2D mode.....but you don't need it as the
> Parhelia has built in features that provide the same smoothness while in
> 2D mode.
Gosh, now you lost me. I wasn't aware that FS2K2 ran in 2D mode without looking terrible.

> Otherwise you always seem to want to fly WUNWINGLOW. grin.
Ah, that Chinese airline.

> This video card seems to unload the server CPU from a lot of extra work
> and allows SUPERB frame rates.....and in my opinion is MUCH faster than
> that of my Nvidia Ti4600's...not to mention the BETTER color and scenery
> clarity.
Very interesting!

> I am a real FAN of this card and couldn't be happier...even though I
> cannot use it as I had inteneded in the 3 monitor mode.....as we all
> await an update to DirectX for another try at that later. That later
> update will require me to reposition my monitor arrangement to allow
> that necessary monitor 1 to be my center view.
Thanks for the information and please keep us posted on the new DX update.

Ben

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PeteDowson

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28. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
09-25-02, 17:33z

Hi Mel,
I've been sucked in and fooled by all the enthusiasm and publicity and pictures and sales talk and bought a Matrox Parhelia plus three identical 15" TFT screens running at 1024 x 768, because I actually believed that I could get a stretched single 3D view across all three screens at that resolution and with flyable frame rates.
Well, the stuffs arrived and I've connected it up, and it works, but if I try to stretch FS2002's forward view over more than 2 screens at 1024x768 each, it goes black!
I checked with my suppliers who swore they had it working across three at 1024 x 768, and flyable, but who now say that the third monitor was a second cockpit view adjusted to 45 degrees or whatever!
That's no good. it immediately halves the frame rate! I could do that sort of thing on my nVidia Ti 4600 and get better, yet still unflyable, frame rates. I assume those folk (SimWare in Belgium) don't really fly or have everything turned down.
I am running all this on a P4-2.4GHz so there's no shortage of processing power. All I'm lacking is the ability to get the three screens up and running at speed I expected and promised.
Have you any ideas? I got the latest Matrox Parhelia drivers from their website, but there's no difference with them.
Is this, as you say, a DirectX limitation, and if so how come the thing's being praised by so many for its "panoramic views"? Even Bubba Wolford (www.simhq.com) says this in a review from when the Parhelia first appeared:
"Flight Sim 2002 looked pretty good on the Parhelia but the resolution (right now) is limited to 800x600 or 2400x600 across three screens. "
but I've also tried 800x600 on all three screens and still only get 2 and a bit of FS before it all goes black!
Have you any idea how I get get what I want out of this kit? Right now I'm feeling a bit cheated and I'm half inclined to send the stuff back and get a refund.
Regards,
Pete

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PeteDowson

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29. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
09-25-02, 17:33z

Hi Mel,
I've been suckered into buying a Parhelia and three identical 15" (1024 x 768) TFTs because I thought I could run FS2002 stretched over all three! :-(
It seems there's no way. The driver doesn't even allow 3 x 640 x 480 to be selected -- 800x600 on all three gives me about 2.5 screens at max stretch before FS2002 goes all black, whilst 1024x768 stretches to 2 screens and that's it!
Very disappointing. All these pictures I've been seeing showing FS2002 stretched over three screens are VERY misleading.
I read in Bubba's review on www.simhq.com that he got it working in 3 x 800 x 600 mode, but for the life of me I cannot find any way of achieving that!
Can you offer any guidance? I downloaded the latest Matrox drivers, but they weren't of any help.
:-(
Regards,
Pete
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Tarmack

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30. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
09-25-02, 18:50z

Pete,
The same problem/conditions that you have, I have too. grin.
Well not REALLY grinning.......I know how you feel.
What fooled me was SEEING a Parhelia running Combat Flight Simulator at the Oshkosh Airshow, in July, while visiting the Microsoft display booth. Not only saw it....flew it for awhile.
My correspondance with a Matrox tech rep revealed that is supposedly an issue with Direct X and that 'probably' the Microsoft booth had an updated version of Direct X installed for their display.
I also have installed the latest Matrox drivers(those of last week) and the new WinXP service pack.....but I still can't run FS2002 across the total 3 screens....like you I only get about 2.5 screens of view before everything goes black.
So, while in wait for the supposed upgrade to DirectX I am compromising by running the Parhelia across two screens in FS2002 and using the 3rd monitor to display FSNavigator on one computer, two screens in FS2002 and one screen to display FSFlightMax, and on the 3rd computer two screens of FS2002 and one screen of AirPlan by Razorsoft.
I'd include a picture of that setup here....but I haven't found how to upload graphics to this forum yet!!
In the meantime, if it wasn't for YOU(and FSUIPC)....I couldn't be so happy with my two monitor Parhelia's. GRIN.
Regards,

Mel

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Mike_Greenwood

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35. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
09-26-02, 02:50z

Hi Mel,
>>I'd include a picture of that setup here....but I haven't found how to
upload graphics to this forum yet!!<<
Our file library is up and running now. Go to the library forum, post a note with your description, filename, etc, and hit the upload button. Once we process it it'll be available in that forum.

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Tarmack

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37. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
09-26-02, 09:53z

Greenie,
THANKS for that info!
I have uploaded 3 small graphic files, parh, parh2, and parh3 to the library.....hope you can post them in this thread for Pete's info.
Now.....BACK to work so see if I can REPLICATE the success of Rob Howard!
Regards,
Mel

>Hi Mel,
>
>>>I'd include a picture of that setup here....but I haven't found how to
>upload graphics to this forum yet!!<<
>
>Our file library is up and running now. Go to the library
>forum, post a note with your description, filename, etc,
>and hit the upload button. Once we process it it'll be
>available in that forum.
>
>
>--Greenie
>**6 miles SSE KSJC**
>
>
>
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Mike_Greenwood

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49. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
09-26-02, 15:37z

>>I have uploaded 3 small graphic files, parh, parh2, and parh3 to the library.....hope you can post them in this thread for Pete's info.<<
Here ya go. Some scrolling involved, but at least they're here <g>

--Greenie
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Tarmack

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54. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
09-27-02, 00:35z

Greenie,
As always.......YOU are on the job!
Thanks!
As you can see, and I hope that Pete can see, it is not all lost.....the views are pretty darn good at 640 graphics.....we can only hold our breath for the return to 1040 graphics.
Course by that time.....the video card will prolly cost about 10 bucks and all of us early pioneers will have to have one more beer to drown our sorrows. Grin.
Regards,
Mel

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Tarmack

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55. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
09-27-02, 00:37z

Greenie,
One more thing. <g>
How come Pete Dowson's messages keep getting REPEATED over and over?
I have my Email notice on for this thread.......and I am pretty sure that I have had over 15 such "notices' today.....all of the SAME message.
What may be going on here....he asks!
Regards,
Mel

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Ben_Chiu

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56. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
09-27-02, 01:44z

Greetings Mel:
> What may be going on here....he asks!
Pete's having some difficulties with the OLR and/or connection. We're working with him to try and track it down.
Thanks for your patience and understanding.
Ben

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Tarmack

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31. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
09-25-02, 19:09z

Pete,
See if this URL works......
http://www.flypfc.com/new%20products/graphics%20generator.html
PFC is showing a new computer system with the Parhelia and they claim views across three full monitors and a picture to prove it.
If the above URL doesn't work...just go to the front page of AVSIM for the story and a different link.
This is why I havent' given up hope. Grin.
Regards,
Mel

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PeteDowson

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34. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
09-25-02, 23:33z

Hi Mel,
> See if this URL works......
>
> http://www.flypfc.com/new%20products/graphics%20generator.html
>
> PFC is showing a new computer system with the Parhelia and they claim
> views across three full monitors and a picture to prove it.
Ah .. right. Thanks I'll try it.
I don't understand how that review on www.simhq.com got it working at 800x600. I'd prefer 1024x768 of course, but if 800x600 gave me 3 screens worth I'd go for it in the interim.
It's also odd that I cannot even try 640x480 on all three -- the Settings simply doesn't list it at all!
> If the above URL doesn't work...just go to the front page of AVSIM for
> the story and a different link.
>
> This is why I havent' given up hope. Grin.
So I should hold onto it and not get them to refund my money, you think?
Best regards,
Pete
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Tarmack

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36. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
09-26-02, 09:46z

Pete,
I WOULD hold onto the card......hope is not lost.
My old partner Rob Howard, from our PFD days, has HIS Parhelia card working across 3 monitors in 3D mode.....and here is how he did it........
I am sharing his message to me of LATE last night....he also has 3 pictures included, PROVING IT, but darned if I can find the upload file area......
================================================
Mel,

Try these things in order…. this is exactly what I did:

Install the card.

Remove all old Matrox drivers.

Install the new (Sept 17?) drivers.

Install the Direct X 8.1 found on the installation disk.

During installation select:
· Three monitors.
· Windows desktop stretch across all three.
· Maximize applications across all three.

Set desktop to 3072 x 768 and ensure Windows has stretched across all three. Make sure that all three monitors appear to be running at the SAME resolution… If not, reset which ever one is wrong (i.e. ‘autosize’ option from the ViewSonic screen) back to 1024 x 768.

Start FS 2002 and make sure it fills ALL three monitors when maximized (if not reselect the above options from ‘4’).

Hit the ALT key and select the Options >> Display. You should see 1920 x 480… select this. (The only time I did not see it was when one of the TFTs was not running in 1024 x 768 mode).

Hit ALT + Enter…. WOW!!!

Once again I think there is something significant in terms of getting the Windows desktop and screen resolutions correct BEFORE FS will recognize the special modes.

If that doesn’t work… go have a cigarette & a beer!

Regards,

Rob.
>Hi Mel,
>
>> See if this URL works......
>>
>> http://www.flypfc.com/new%20products/graphics%20generator.html
>>
>> PFC is showing a new computer system with the Parhelia and they claim
>> views across three full monitors and a picture to prove it.
>
>Ah .. right. Thanks I'll try it.
>
>I don't understand how that review on www.simhq.com got it
>working at 800x600. I'd prefer 1024x768 of course, but if
>800x600 gave me 3 screens worth I'd go for it in the
>interim.
>
>It's also odd that I cannot even try 640x480 on all three
>-- the Settings simply doesn't list it at all!
>
>> If the above URL doesn't work...just go to the front page of AVSIM for
>> the story and a different link.
>>
>> This is why I havent' given up hope. Grin.
>
>So I should hold onto it and not get them to refund my
>money, you think?
>
>Best regards,
>
>Pete
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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PeteDowson

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47. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
09-26-02, 13:54z

Hi Mel,
> I WOULD hold onto the card......hope is not lost.
>
> My old partner Rob Howard, from our PFD days, has HIS Parhelia card
> working across 3 monitors in 3D mode.....and here is how he did
> it........
> Hit the ALT key and select the Options >> Display. You should see 1920 x
> 480… select this. (The only time I did not see it was when one of the
> TFTs was not running in 1024 x 768 mode).
Yeah, this is actually running all three screens in 640x480 modes -- the lowest possible VGA resolution! I've done that, it worked straight away. But it doesn't look good, especially when you've been used to 1280x1024 mode as I have.
I read Bubba's review on www.simhq.com where he said he had it working in 3 x 800 x 600 (i.e. 2400 x 600), which would be acceptable, but really I wanted it to use the native resolution of the screens, i.e. 1024 x 768 (or 3072 x 768). both these modes are actually listed in the FS drop down, but neither work.
Regards,
Pete
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PeteDowson

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40. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
09-26-02, 10:06z

Hi Mel,
> PFC is showing a new computer system with the Parhelia and they claim
> views across three full monitors and a picture to prove it.
I've asked PFC about this. You will be interested in their reply:
"We are using the Parheli card with NEC 1880sx 18" LCDs. The card resolution
is set for 3840x1024 and stretch mode for 3 monitors. FS is set up for 1920x480. We also had to
get the latest driver to get it to work properly."
In other words, they (currently) have to use 3 x 640 x 480, which seems to be a bit of a misuse of lovely great 18" panels!
I've got it running here in 1920x480 mode (just set it in the Options-Settings-Disaply-Hardware tab, and press ALT+ENTER after wards. On 15" screens and not looking too close it's okay. Nice for cross-country flying, clouds and so on, but it does bring back jaggies to runways, buildings and so on.
I do hope this gets sorted!
Regards,
Pete
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Tarmack

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42. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
09-26-02, 11:43z

Pete,
Yup, I am NOW doing the same thing.........running VIRTUAL COCKPIT MODE across 3 monitors at a .50 Zoom factor and it is quite acceptable.....as we BOTH await new drivers to go to 1024x768.
Thanks for getting me off of my dead patoot.....I really hadn't tried to do this 3 monitor mode thing again since I loaded in the WinXP service pack and the latest Matrox drivers..as I had to do a ton of monitor and cable moving in very tight spaces....the wife only alloted a somewhat bigger than a broom closet for my home cockpit. Grin.
Regards,
Mel
>Hi Mel,
>
>> PFC is showing a new computer system with the Parhelia and they claim
>> views across three full monitors and a picture to prove it.
>
>I've asked PFC about this. You will be interested in their
>reply:
>
>"We are using the Parheli card with NEC 1880sx 18" LCDs.
>The card resolution
>is set for 3840x1024 and stretch mode for 3 monitors. FS
>is set up for 1920x480. We also had to
>get the latest driver to get it to work properly."
>
>In other words, they (currently) have to use 3 x 640 x
>480, which seems to be a bit of a misuse of lovely great
>18" panels!
>
>I've got it running here in 1920x480 mode (just set it in
>the Options-Settings-Disaply-Hardware tab, and press
>ALT+ENTER after wards. On 15" screens and not looking too
>close it's okay. Nice for cross-country flying, clouds and
>so on, but it does bring back jaggies to runways,
>buildings and so on.
>
>I do hope this gets sorted!
>
>Regards,
>
>Pete
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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PeteDowson

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48. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
09-26-02, 13:55z

Hi again Mel,
> Yup, I am NOW doing the same thing.........running VIRTUAL COCKPIT MODE
> across 3 monitors at a .50 Zoom factor and it is quite acceptable
Well, it's quite good for cross country flying and normal cruising, but airports and buildings are looking all jaggy again. I've got 16xFSAA enables and anisotropic thingmejigging, but the resolution is so low that it's noticeable poor at airports. Also any red text displays like frame rates and so on are handicapped by weird extra red bits around the text. Most odd.
I use full screen outside view modes, no cockpit on screen virtual or otherwise. That's all on other PCs <G>

Regards,
Pete
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brynjames

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61. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
09-27-02, 17:41z

Pete,
>I don't understand how that review on www.simhq.com got it
>working at 800x600. I'd prefer 1024x768 of course, but if
>800x600 gave me 3 screens worth I'd go for it in the
>interim.
You can contact Bubba at bubba@simhq.com if you want to find out how he did it. I'd be interested to hear the answer too

Bryn

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Tarmack

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41. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
09-26-02, 10:17z

Pete,
YES......I AM SCREAMING AT YOU. GRIN!!
DON'T RETURN THAT MATROX CARD.......FOLLOWING ROB HOWARD'S SUGGESTIONS, AS I POSTED IN A SEPARATE MESSAGE.....I NOW HAVE THE PARHELIA RUNNING ACROSS 3 MONITORS IN 3 MODE AND IT IS BREATHTAKING!
IT CAN BE DONE!
REGARDS,
Mel
>Hi Mel,
>
>I've been suckered into buying a Parhelia and three
>identical 15" (1024 x 768) TFTs because I thought I could
>run FS2002 stretched over all three! :-(
>
>It seems there's no way. The driver doesn't even allow 3 x
>640 x 480 to be selected -- 800x600 on all three gives me
>about 2.5 screens at max stretch before FS2002 goes all
>black, whilst 1024x768 stretches to 2 screens and that's
>it!
>
>Very disappointing. All these pictures I've been seeing
>showing FS2002 stretched over three screens are VERY
>misleading.
>
>I read in Bubba's review on www.simhq.com that he got it
>working in 3 x 800 x 600 mode, but for the life of me I
>cannot find any way of achieving that!
>
>Can you offer any guidance? I downloaded the latest Matrox
>drivers, but they weren't of any help.
>
> :-(
>
>Regards,
>
>Pete
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Guido_Ostkamp

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76. "RE: Matrox Parhelia"
09-28-02, 10:33z

Test reply to investigate Pete Dowson's problems.
Please ignore.
Regards,
Guido
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